Map diversity and rotation

[Akadir 261]

Hello everyone, so as it currently stands, nide is losing players, and from my perspective, players leave for a variety of reasons, but there's three things that I find impact player numbers: 

• Maps
• Settings
• Admins

Now from my perspective, we should be able to find ways to improve on all three aspects of this, but I want to start off with perhaps the most pressing issue in my opinion, maps.

 

Maps, Map Pools, and Diversity

I think we can all agree first and foremost that we shouldn't play the same maps all day every day, however at the same time I think at the moment we are spreading are map pool too thin, i.e. playing too many maps. If counter strike source was a person it'd be 16, have a job, and drive, it's been around the block, and people know what they like and what they want to play. I also however think that if we were 24/7 mako we wouldn't survive 3 days, so there needs to be a balance in between. Currently though, our map pool is so restrictive, I often see people complaining that nothing is off cooldown during NA hours, and that they are forced to play 'bad' maps, such as holdem, which can be fun, but most of the time get boring fast. I think we are FAR too restrictive with our map pools, as casual maps can be played fairly regularly, with ease, i.e. imo should be on short cooldowns of around 30 maps, so that you can play each once a day if you want to. If you look at servers like SIB and Unloze, both play very small map pools in comparison to ours. That being said however, there needs to be a balance inbetween casual and tryhard maps, which is why I think we need to implement a global ff cooldown, meaning? You can't play two laser maps in a row. I also think lowering our cooldown on easier maps would improve  our players enjoy ability, with most maps sitting around 30 CD, and tryhard and laser maps being around 60-90, i.e. minas, mako, westersand, etc. Right now we force people to play too many sh*t maps, we should have a balance some underplayed, but mostly the maps people know and love, as if we force people to play sh*t they don't like, they won't stay for long, something we're going through right now.

 

I also think that we have a major issue not being able to switch off of tryhard maps to casual maps. An example of this is going from wanderers v5 on sunday straight to train escape, both are extreme maps, wanderers v5 is extremely tryhard, and trainescape is nemesis and extremely casual, both have very different playerbases. In cases like this, it's important to play casual maps, but that appeal to those already on the server, something like helms deep or potc, as they appeal to both tryhards and casuals, but don't invovle lasers, and can ease out our tryhard players and ease in casual, rather than having a sharp drop off of tryhards, with few casuals left on.

 

Perhaps the most important thing to mention in regards to maps though is to not punish people for what they like, i.e. if I like minas, mountainescape, or paranoid, I'm going to rarely play nide. I think we need to ease our massive restrictions and I'm just using these maps as examples of why a lot of people enjoy unloze and play there, instead of on nide. Instead of punishing those players we need to appeal to them, i.e. let us play these maps, albeit with large cooldowns of maybe 90 or 120.  

 

Settings

I think as it currently stands our settings are fine. I think we should keep our easy settings to differentiate ourselves from our competition, and appeal to casual players, as hard settings can be a lot harder to get into, and require a much larger investment, where-as easy settings draw in people as it's a lot easier to get into the game.

 

Admins

I think we're doing ok on this one, perhaps though we should start training our admins, as I find many newer admins have trouble knowing what to do in certain situations, an extreme example of this was laith. 

 

Thank you all for reading, I appreciate your time, and my apologies about creating a separate thread aside from map pool. I felt that we shouldn't just focus on one aspect of what populates a server, but instead branch it off into a further discussion about admins, and settings. I would appreciate feedback from anyone and every member of any ze community.

[Creepy_ 154]

I don't agree 100% with this thread, nowadays most of people prefer playing FF maps (I like those too) or tryhard maps all the time, and we shouldn't force them to play maps they dont like, for example boatescape. On csgo you can see many servers playing these laser maps all the time and they are doing fine and no one complains, nide can do the same I think. 

Let's be honnest here, no one want to play casual maps anymore, it's not 2012, it's better to play casual if population is bad.

Also we have more people on nide then on unloze at night too, so it confirms people play on nide more then on unloze

Edited July 15, 2020 by ShadowCreepy

[Akadir 261]

we wil take that into consideration thanks for the feedback 

[Sergey 8]

cd for ff maps, no more two continuous ff maps.. we have it ~1-2 year ago and ppl go out from server, for solve it we delete this (u) idea and ppl inc more, but it was with pivo. Now no pivo.
i see problem that many admins dont know how play many rare maps in rotation list. If we inc cd for popular maps and ppl start play new rare maps in nide rotation... server die, bacouse - no one know how play this rare maps. Also admins come to server only if we play popular maps.

other problem - no one guide materia and boss attacks for new players, i saw that admins guide only on event. good players that know how play ff\materia maps - don't have problem and played it, new players don't know about it's and want that someone tell how play (and new players newer say "help"), so i see solution that always need lead maps, each maps (also like boatescape), don't wait when new ppl say "we need help" or "idk what do, i leaf from stupid server" or disconnect after stupid die like faildown or die on first boss attack, bacouse no one tell that first attack can kill ppl.
i think that will be good idea create here or on forum separato topic with guide for materia, boss and maps

 

for a change, you can use a stripper to introduce a couple of additional difficult or fun modes to FF cards, say some complex lasers or more Sephiroth with a laser in the middle of the card (so that players do not sit in one place and stand at the door, otherwise the laser will fly and kill them , maybe it will teach to defect on mako)  or for fun add same of rtv stages, but enable only if we won with good score, like 5-0 and ect

also many ppl come to ze from job, and want relax, need do something for that case (but don't repeat pivo case where he come from job and make ff nomlist)

also we can do more anime or other skins for invite more players for vip -> inc online

add Nide TV tourch light for usually players (cd 1 minute) with fun voices, like on unloze or like attached discord bot to unloze server with command !autism

also when new ppl take items, we start eban it's or transfer without tell how use this item, like say "u new stupid don't know how to use it",  after player is sad or disconnect

an example i see that no one take items and we fail round without items, maybe ppl cry pick up for ebans and transfers

 

and remove black color skins, this cheat) : skin color need for highlighting (green, blue, red, yellow or rainbow), no for tryhard as zm with bhop

 

many new players find it difficult to play for people, they are often zombies and even play better for them, die dumb, and on complex cards they are also haters for it (for example Rockly) and get a kick or ban

due to the fact that strong players often get protection from spawn like zombies, weak players very often appear like zombies, and it even seems that a player is only zombies throughout the map, and then they scold him

I noticed that after heavy cards the players get tired, and if the next card is heavy, they leave. Pivo had a rather unusual solution - knife fun after FF, which, although for 10 minutes, cheered up and gave a break, instead of installing atix, which most likely kills the server.

[Plex 101]

I'm just gonna say my thoughts on this topic.

For starters NiDE has been losing players for a while now, It rarely is about the Admins on or Settings and more about the Maps we've been playing lately. For example, in the morning today we played Westersand v8, Westersand v7, Feywood, Ridorana and we maintained a constant player number that (when I was admin) we've been trying to hit for a while. NiDE a few months ago would've gained players on maps like Rocket Escape, Boatescape, etc. But there isn't a lockdown in most places anymore so not a lot of people feel motivated to play these type of maps. There could also be the restriction of Time zone, where players are usually playing at night and don't have the opportunity to nominate a map they like because we've already played it. I've repeatedly urged our current staff to remove CD at night and instead they came up with a somewhat decent solution which is lowering CD on FF maps and a few other maps, but not every player wants to play an FF map during later nights. As a player that plays during the later nights, I hate playing maps like what akadir stated, "HoldEm" and "Barrage".

 

Instead of trying to go towards the casual players, which are only a few considering that the only people that really play cs:s ze anymore are people that enjoy a challenge.

 

I do not believe reinstating a lazer map CD and highering the FF CD will increase the enjoyment of players at all, you're looking towards the smaller group of people rather than the people that actually enjoy playing FF maps, look at the player count between Wester v8, v7, Mako v6 and Tyranny, and the player count on Boatescape:

The player count started to rise afterwards and ended up with

3 hours ago, Akadir said:

I also think that we have a major issue not being able to switch off of tryhard maps to casual maps. An example of this is going from wanderers v5 on sunday straight to train escape, both are extreme maps, wanderers v5 is extremely tryhard, and trainescape is nemesis and extremely casual, both have very different playerbases. In cases like this, it's important to play casual maps, but that appeal to those already on the server, something like helms deep or potc, as they appeal to both tryhards and casuals, but don't invovle lasers, and can ease out our tryhard players and ease in casual, rather than having a sharp drop off of tryhards, with few casuals left on.

Yes, this is a problem that could be fixed. I'll give a couple ideas off the top of my head.

• We could higher the CD of regular maps like this.
• We could add a casual map CD during a certain time.

I know these aren't amazing examples but with a little help from the Admin team and Players, we could come up with something that the majority of both will enjoy.

 

I'm way too tired to write up on the rest but this is just my opinion.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Plex

[Haziwa 36]

+1 plex

[WAEL[TN] 40]

@ShadowCreepy its 2020 and creepy is right 

 

[FPTyel 118]

Because of f*cking lasers. All problems because of lasers.

Many people want to play on easy \ normal \ hard maps, without lasers. Many people do not want to teach MiniGame element \ etc. Just a damn ZE, nothing else.

[ღდ❦NikaTech 80]

12 hours ago, ShadowCreepy said:

On csgo you can see many servers playing these laser maps all the time and they are doing fine and no one complains, nide can do the same I think. 

Personally, I think it's the difference with the 2 games, not just the map. The only reason why csgo could do it is because of the community and the impact of the game towards the players. 

[DeMoN 197]

I will just say,f*ck the lasers and the unskilled laser fags,bring back the old glory of defending maps.

[Green Tea 32]

13 hours ago, Akadir said:

That being said however, there needs to be a balance inbetween casual and tryhard maps, which is why I think we need to implement a global ff cooldown, meaning? You can't play two laser maps in a row.

If by this you mean going back to the way it was with map groups, I honestly dont think this will end well for the overall server population. It would be better to let the server reach its own equilibrium without much interference. 

And to support @ShadowCreepy's point, the few days of the year the chinese players decide to come to css and play on ZED, the server is full for literally the whole day while playing laser maps. Obviously states how much people prefer to play these maps.

[William! :D 171]

 

[ღდ❦NikaTech 80]

@William! :D The results 

[Sergey 8]

15 часов назад, Plex сказал:

I'm just gonna say my thoughts on this topic.

For starters NiDE has been losing players for a while now, It rarely is about the Admins on or Settings and more about the Maps we've been playing lately. For example, in the morning today we played Westersand v8, Westersand v7, Feywood, Ridorana and we maintained a constant player number that (when I was admin) we've been trying to hit for a while. NiDE a few months ago would've gained players on maps like Rocket Escape, Boatescape, etc. But there isn't a lockdown in most places anymore so not a lot of people feel motivated to play these type of maps. There could also be the restriction of Time zone, where players are usually playing at night and don't have the opportunity to nominate a map they like because we've already played it. I've repeatedly urged our current staff to remove CD at night and instead they came up with a somewhat decent solution which is lowering CD on FF maps and a few other maps, but not every player wants to play an FF map during later nights. As a player that plays during the later nights, I hate playing maps like what akadir stated, "HoldEm" and "Barrage".

 

Instead of trying to go towards the casual players, which are only a few considering that the only people that really play cs:s ze anymore are people that enjoy a challenge.

 

I do not believe reinstating a lazer map CD and highering the FF CD will increase the enjoyment of players at all, you're looking towards the smaller group of people rather than the people that actually enjoy playing FF maps, look at the player count between Wester v8, v7, Mako v6 and Tyranny, and the player count on Boatescape:

The player count started to rise afterwards and ended up with

Yes, this is a problem that could be fixed. I'll give a couple ideas off the top of my head.

• We could higher the CD of regular maps like this.
• We could add a casual map CD during a certain time.

I know these aren't amazing examples but with a little help from the Admin team and Players, we could come up with something that the majority of both will enjoy.

 

I'm way too tired to write up on the rest but this is just my opinion.

 

I think it is incorrect to compare online boatescape with FF, when boatescape is placed immediately after FF, usually when boatescape appears in the middle of easy cards, online starts to grow, and then players bet already heavy cards, because boatescape has collected 50-60 players. I also find it important to consider which cards are played before and after the card in question to assess its suitability.

[hzrd 21]

I'm a pretty new player so maybe I can give my thoughts from a different perspective:

Personally, I think there should be a change to cooldowns to something similar like Unloze. I know the main population is from Europe, but there is also players from Asia and North /South America. I think this is when the population suffers the most because all the popular maps have already been played so we're stuck playing unpopular maps, causing less players to join, stay and actually play the game. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the server play Nemesis and Shroom for the past couple of nights. And most of the time I see the same maps with low cooldown being played and don't even bother to join the server (I'm sure a lot of ppl can relate too). I've also had a friend who complained about not being able to play Minas in over a month. We would nominate a good popular map but people worry too much about "wasting " it, so we go to a different map and lose players when we could have gained players.

I think a change to cooldown can encourage EU players to stay up later (if they can) and also encourage players in different time zones to also come and play. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing both laser and defending maps but most times we can't play these good maps, so we resort to others. I have stayed up late to play maps with a large population, so I am sure that EU players will also stay up to play if the map is right.

 

[notglory 71]

17 hours ago, DeMoN said:

I will just say,f*ck the lasers and the unskilled laser fags,bring back the old glory of defending maps.

im here bby

[Plex 101]

12 hours ago, Sergey said:

 

I think it is incorrect to compare online boatescape with FF, when boatescape is placed immediately after FF, usually when boatescape appears in the middle of easy cards, online starts to grow, and then players bet already heavy cards, because boatescape has collected 50-60 players. I also find it important to consider which cards are played before and after the card in question to assess its suitability.

Ofcourse it is, I'm speaking in general for most non-laser or hard maps not just boatescape. If we were to check the amount of players on for those type of maps, it'd be pretty low.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Plex

[Lightning Strike 93]

Hey

When I was admin I was very active and I slowly witnessed how the server changed

One of them was the insane population shift, lets get this out of the way - Around 1 month ago or more, unloze was slowly dying. Server was barely active, and nide was very active with 40-60 players usually. Then, few weeks later it completely shifts:

Unloze fills up with 65/65 all day, nide barely getting any players.

The reason is simple - overplayed nemesis and easy maps. Few weeks back we used to have garbage map marathons all the time, so much to the point where you could call nide a nemesis server. It was getting so bad to the point where people started getting sick of these marathons so they moved to unloze

Not really related but eitherway: 1 time we were playing boatescape (no surprise) then it was time to vote, the maps were:    gris, grau, mindtree, temple ancient, sorrento - All good maps except sorrento, and what do you know they voted for sorrento
Vote wasnt even close, literally 6-7 votes apart

I dont say you should play laser maps all day, there are some other maps which are really nice also; but you need to understand this: When csgo became free css ze started dying because many moved to csgo, and what remains in this community is simply laser fags. You only see the newbies in easy maps
I understand the point of giving them something easy to play, but you also need to understand is those newbies arent gonna get good at the game ever if they keep doing this. 
Take this for example - What does boatescape teach new players? Go on a boat, go afk till u reach the end, get to the end, wait a bit, smoke, go to the boat, win.
Same usual repetitive stuff, you need to give something challenging for newbies to let them get good. Im not saying laser maps of course, anything challenging. 

Its not a coincidence the server gets full when we are playing laser maps. Its because its what remains in this community, laser fags. While you might not like it but the answer is simply there, you need laser maps to get the server full.
 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Lightning Strike

[Plex 101]

8 minutes ago, Lightning Strike said:

 

Not really related but eitherway: 1 time we were playing boatescape (no surprise) then it was time to vote, the maps were:    gris, grau, mindtree, temple ancient, sorrento - All good maps except sorrento, and what do you know they voted for sorrento
Vote wasnt even close, literally 6-7 votes apart

they've gotten so used to playing the same sh*t maps that it's all they play now. Recently its chilled out and they've started getting used to playing harder maps.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Plex

[Tex 99]

Bring back ZE_spacestaionzzz

 

/End thread